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1/16/2020 Hole Pattern Recognition

Pattern recognition is an evolved specialty of the human brain.  This innate ability allows us to recognize faces, spot a lion in the jungle, and see objects in the clouds.  Despite the effortlessness of employing this skill, it is not well understood nor can it be replicated by machines, even after decades of computer science research.  So take some pride in it.

A somewhat confusing array of holes, letters, numbers, and arrows on the Hagan jig by ATK.

But before we get too cocky, let’s test our abilities by taking it to the next level.  Can we recognize patterns of patterns?  In this case, we mean screw-hole patterns.  The kind needed to mount tech bindings to your skis.  Let’s see if we can spot any “meta patterns”:

Binding Toe Pattern (WxL) Heel Pattern (WxL)
Atomic Backland 40 x 38 27 x 58
BD Helio 110/145/200LT 30 x 27 25 x 34
BD Helio 180/200 30 x 27 25 x 86
Dynafit Low Tech Race 30 x 39 23 x 25
Dynafit LTR 2.0 / PDG 30 x 39 28 x 30
Dynafit LTR 105 24/42.5 x 25  28 x 30
Dynafit Speed Superlite 30 x 39 23 x 37
Dynafit Superlite 150 24/42.5 x 25 34/28 x 28
Dynafit Superlite 2.0 / 175 30 x 39 34/28 x 28
Dynafit Speed / Speedfit 30 x 39 28 x 38.5
Dynafit Speed Turn 30 x 26.5 (+19) 32/36 x 52.5
Dynafit Speed Turn 2.0 30 x 39 32/36 x 52.5
Dynafit Vertical Series 30 x 26.5 (+19) 32/36 x 52.5
Dynafit Radical Series 30 x 39 32/36 x 52.5
Dynafit Radical 2.0 42.5 x 58 35.5 x 88
Dynafit Rotation 10/12 42.5 x 58 35.5 x 88
Dynafit Rotation 7 42.5 x 58 32/36 x 52.5
Dynafit Expedition 30 x 39 25 x 25
Fritschi Vipec / Tecton 43.5/39.5 x 65.5 28.5 x 60.5
Fritschi Xenic 44 x 33 28.5 x 60.5
G3 ION / Zed 40 x 45 36.5 x 52.5
Hagan Core 30 x 27 45 x 60
Hagan Core Pro 45 x 44 45 x 60
Hagan Pure 30 x 27 45/25 x 60
Hagan Ride 30 x 27 25 x 86
Hagan Ultra / ZR 30 x 27 25 x 34
Kreuzspitze SCTT/GT 30 x 27 20.5 x 25
Kreuzspitze EL 30 x 27 32/36 x 52.5
La Sportiva RSR 30 x 27 25 x 25
Marker Alpinist 38 x 46 36 x 40
Marker Kingpin 38 x 46 36 x 77 (+115)
Plum Race 99/120/135/145/150 30 x 26.5 20.5 x 26
Plum Race 165/170 / Oazo 30 x 26.5 25 x 55
Plum Pika / WEPA 30 x 26.5 32/36 x 53
Plum Guide 30 x 26.5 32/36 x 53
Plum Summit 35 x 68.5 35.5 x 71.5
Plum Yak 50 x 50 55 x 58
RC1 by PG 32 x 32 28 x 33.5
Salomon MTN 40 x 38 27 x 58
Ski Trab TR Race / Titan / Vario 30 x 27 25 x 31
Ski Trab TR / Titan Adjustable 30 x 27 40 x 40
Ski Trab Vario Adj. / Vario.2 30 x 27 45.5 x 37.5
Ski Trab TR-2 36 x 28 45.5 x 37.5 (+51.5)

The numbers are the distance between sets of holes in width (across the ski) and length (along the ski) in millimeters. The "slash" widths (e.g. 32/36) indicate the front holes differ in width vs the rear. The 3rd number on the Vertical toes is the 5th hole behind the lock lever which is also present on older TLT Speed and Comfort series bindings from Dynafit. It is located 19mm up the ski from the first set of holes (+19). Similarly, the Kingpin and TR-2 have a 5th heel hole far in front of the others.

Whether or not you see race bindings when you look at clouds, we can see some patterns when drilling holes in skis. Knowing something about the history of tech bindings also helps, since it becomes clear that several manufacturers have borrowed measurements from previously patented Dynafit bindings.  As such, many drill-hole patterns on toe pieces can be reduced to two competing standards, what we call “Classic Dynafit” 30 x 26.5mm and “Radical” 30 x 39mm.  Bindings with the same patterns can be mounted in holes drilled for other bindings using the same dimensions.

The astute will notice a half-millimeter discrepancy in some toe-hole lengths: 26.5 vs 27mm.  Luckily, this doesn’t prevent us from reusing drill holes as binding hole diameters have seemingly standardized at 6mm, while screw thread diameters are set at 5.5mm, leaving a half-millimeter of wiggle room.

However, fans of race bindings know that a half-millimeter can affect binding release characteristics, amount of heel rub in flat-on-ski mode, and degree of alignment between boot tech fittings and heel pins.  And since binding screws are often countersunk, the act of tightening a screw can easily move a binding by this amount.  Thus you often have to be conscious of the order in which you tighten binding screws, making sure not to tighten ones that pull in an unwanted direction first.

The same half-millimeter discrepancy is apparent in drilling jigs that manufacturers provide to their dealers.  So make sure to ask your shop if they are using the correct jig, as some might be tempted to cut corners and use a common Dynafit jig to drill holes for a less common Ski Trab or Plum binding, for example.  The result could be a little sloppy.

The Plum jig’s combination of common and uncommon drill hole patterns.

Heel hole patterns are less standardized unfortunately, but there are often solutions to compatibility issues in the form of adjustment plates.  For example, a Hagan adjustment plate can be mounted with any heel that is 25mm wide, including the La Sportiva RSR and Ski Trab TR-Race bindings.  The differing lengths of those bindings will affect the resulting boot sole length (BSL) range, but they will slide fore or aft just fine.  Dynafit race heels, in contrast, will only work with the Dynafit adjustment plates, as they are a unique tripod design.

As you can see, there is quite a bit of variability between mounting patterns for race heels.  This means the chances of being able to swap heels with another model and no adjustment plate are low.

In summary, before grabbing a drill and turning your skis into Swiss cheese, take a moment to check the screw hole pattern.  Similar to tech binding heel gaps, a few unwritten standards have evolved.  It’s possible another binding or adjustment plate will fit into existing holes or some simple planning will give you future flexibility.  That could free your brain to recognize more interesting patterns such as possible ski lines.

This article was originally published on 1/29/2014 and was last updated on 1/16/2020.

Comments

11/30/2020
Comment from Andrius G
 
HI Guys,

Can you advice what adjustment plate would fit for Alpinist 12 ?
I need extra 20mm of adjustment capability so heel or toe adjustment would work.

I looked through, but none of them seem to match...
I understood Toe is 38x46 , Heel - 36x40.
Can you advice ?

BR,
Andrius
Reply to this comment:

11/27/2020
Comment from Barry O
 
Thanks for the article and list. I have a pair of K2coombacks with the first year radicals. I still enjoy the skis but I may replace the binding this winter.
Reply to this comment:

11/24/2020
Comment from greg s
 
It'd be really cool if you would update this list with the various adjuster plates as well, with both the drill hole dimensions as well as the heel mount dimensions...

would help in planning franken-bindings

thx!
Reply to this comment:

10/16/2020
Comment from Gibby
 
Greetings from Alaska!

I am putting together an unusual setup and could use some help. I have some new Zandstra Nordic Skates. These are typically set up with Nordic bindings but I am wanting to put tech bindings on them (to make my life difficult). The Rail on which they can be bolted is slotted at a width of 26mm on center. Does your chart of hole patterns measure on center, outer edge, or inner edge?

Cheers!
10/16/2020
Reply from jbo
 
Hi Gibby, the listed measurements reflect the distance between the center of the screw holes. Good luck with your interesting setup!
10/16/2020
Reply from Zach G
 
Thanks for the response. Is there a plate or shim that I could use that would accommodate the toe piece to the skate? I have a pair of 2018 speed radicals I’m trying to mount on them. Thanks
10/17/2020
Reply from jbo
 
Hi Zach, we're not aware of anything specifically made for that situation...you might be into a fun DIY project!
Reply to this comment:

6/24/2020
Comment from Bob
 
I have Atomic Warden MNC 13 bindings. Anyone know the hole pattern for these? OR How precise do I have to be in measuring the hole locations to lay out my own template? Thanks!
6/24/2020
Reply from Jeff
 
Bob, We don't have any info on Alpine bindings.
Reply to this comment:

5/12/2020
Comment from Kyle Bradley
 
How do the Alpinist and Alpinist Long Travel hole patterns compare? Seems like you can get 15mm adjustment or 30mm with the long travel if I understand it correctly. But does that additional travel adjustment change the hole pattern for the heels? Toes just share the Kingpin hole pattern correct?
6/24/2020
Reply from Cole P
 
Hey Kyle, You are correct on the heel adjustment that you can get 15mm of adjustment on the Alpinist, and 30mm of adjustment on the Alpinist long travel. Both the Alpinist and Alpinist long travel share the same hole pattern and all share the same toe hole pattern as the Kingpin.
Reply to this comment:

4/23/2020
Comment from sherpa s
 
i would also propose {if capacity and time allows} to publish the hole pattern for the binding plates {shift and extension types} in some type of nice table. i have some measured myself.
ATK XXL plate R03 A {toe plate} 60x60mm suitable for old classic Dynafit TLT toe patterns 30x26.5 or Kreuzspitze/ATK and others 30x27. 3 toe positions.
ATK XXL plate R03 P {heel plate} 60x60mm suitable for any patterns 25xLL or ATK heels, or Kreuzspitze heels rotated 90 degrees {SCTT, SCTTT, GT}. shifting rail length 60mmm.

newer model {now being sold} is wider on the contact/supporting area with binding
ATK XXL plate R08 A {toe plate} 60x60mm suitable for old classic Dynafit TLT toe patterns 30x26.5 or Kreuzspitze/ATK and others 30x27. 3 toe positions.
4/23/2020
Reply from jbo
 
Hi Sherpa, we have info on adjustment plates here.
Reply to this comment:

3/26/2020
Comment from Hiroki I
 
Thank you for the valuable information. I know you don't sell ATK branded bindings but do you happen to know their R12 binding hole patterns are?
3/27/2020
Reply from jbo
 
Hi Hiroki, haven't been able to measure them yet, but we'll have next season as the Hagan Core Pro.
3/30/2020
Reply from Hiroki I
 
Hi jbo, I just got a confirmation from Davide of ATK. 45mm(W)x44mm front and 45mm(W)x60mm rear. Thanks.
4/1/2020
Reply from jbo
 
Thanks Hiroki! Great to have the numbers directly from the source.
Reply to this comment:

3/7/2020
Comment from Clark
 
Fantastic information, thanks!

A couple questions -
1) I don't see the hole patterns for the Hagan Pure listed (yet), do you have those?
2) Is the Hagan Pure essentially also the ATK Crest and/or RT series (same mount pattern)?
3) A friend who is currently riding Dynafit Rotations (version 1), and myself currently on ION 10's (v1), are both considering the Pure's and/or possibly ATKs (if same). Would we be able to do these remounts without any fore/aft adjustments on the ski?

Thanks in advance!
4/23/2020
Reply from sherpa s
 
Hagan Pure = ATK Crest
Hagan Ultra = ATK SL
Hagan Core = ATK Raider 12 2.0

ATK rebrands their bindings to Hagan, Kaestle, Black Diamond. quite a Matrix ;-) then.
Reply to this comment:

2/1/2020
Comment from Rob
 
Hi,

Based on these patterns for Marker Kingpin/Alpinist, would I be able to just add 2 extra holes (with inserts aka quiver killers) and have a swappable Kingpin/Alpinist heelpiece?

Would that work?
2/1/2020
Reply from TSB
 
Hey Rob! Yes, we've seen folks set up their skis for this Marker combo with Quiver Killers and it looks just fine. Overall you would end up with the sixteen holes and QK inserts typically required for a binding mount, plus six total extra holes and QK inserts (two per ski for the plus one "fifth" hole per ski for the front screw of the Kingpin).
Reply to this comment:

10/15/2019
Comment from jpk
 
my kingpins are 77, not 78 (heel, length)
10/26/2019
Reply from jbo
 
Hi jpk, I remeasured and have to concur. Updated.
Reply to this comment:

4/11/2019
Comment from Peter B
 
Hi,
I need to take a pair of Dynafit Beast that need to come off a favorite pair of skis. Would I be able to mount a Plum Yak or Guide using the same holes? Or would I be able to mount either of these bindings without having to significantly move the mount point?

Thanks!
4/19/2019
Reply from jbo
 
Hi Peter, the patterns for the Plum bindings are quite different than the Beasts. Do you have the 14 or 16? You could likely make the Plums work inside of the 14 holes. With the 16 you'd likely be moving forward or backward fairly significantly.
Reply to this comment:

2/14/2019
Comment from Yannis
 
Hi,
I just wanted to thank you to publish this table which is gold !
Cheers
2/20/2019
Reply from jbo
 
Thanks for the feedback Yannis!
Reply to this comment:

12/10/2018
Comment from Chris
 
I read through the details here, but still not 100% sure... can I pull vertical tlt 10 from a ski and remount with radical 2.0, or will I have significant issues with drilling and hole overlap? Thanks in advance!
12/10/2018
Reply from jbo
 
Hi Chris, the heels would fit in the same holes no problem. For the toes, you would need to plug three holes and drill two new ones, but the pins will be in roughly the same position if you re-use the aft holes.
Reply to this comment:

11/27/2018
Comment from Udo Werner
 
Hello,
I am looking for adjustment plate for my Dynafit superlite 2.0 front/toe part.
I must bridge over old drill holes.
Do you have an recommendation for me?
Udo
11/27/2018
Reply from jbo
 
Hi Udo, you could use the Aski toe plates, or the B&D radical shift plates.
Reply to this comment:

7/5/2018
Comment from Mariana
 
Hello, I am confused with the radical ¿1? series. I wonder if the Dynafit ST Radical with stoppers and the TLT Speed Radical without stoppers, have the same hole patterns? Thanks in advance.
7/5/2018
Reply from jbo
 
Hi Mariana, yes they do.
Reply to this comment:

7/4/2018
Comment from Mariana
 
Hello! Can you tell me the toe/heel pattern of the Dynafit Rotation 7? Is the toe mounting pattern the same of the dynafit TLT speed turn 2.0? Thanks
7/4/2018
Reply from jbo
 
Hi Mariana, our Rotation 7s won't arrive until fall for us to verify, but I believe the toe pattern is the "Radical 2.0" while the heel pattern is the "Radical 1.0". In other words 42.5 x 58 and 32/36 x 52.5
Reply to this comment:

6/18/2018
Comment from Mark
 
Do you know what the dimensions are for the hole pattern of the atk race trofeo?
7/4/2018
Reply from jbo
 
Hi Mark, we don't have one in stock, but it's likely the same as the Hagan ZR.
Reply to this comment:

6/15/2018
Comment from Enno
 
Hi, I'm trying to find a tech and an alpine binding with the same drill pattern, is there such a pair? Any help apreciated.
7/4/2018
Reply from jbo
 
Hi Enno, unfortunately we are not aware of a crossover pattern.
Reply to this comment:

5/8/2018
Comment from Cameron S Jenkins
 
Does anyone know any ski bindings that are compatible with the FT88 hole patterns
Sorry been looking for a while and haven't found anything
5/8/2018
Reply from jbo
 
Hi Cameron, old school! Unfortunately we don't even have the measurements for that binding.
Reply to this comment:



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