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1/29/2014 Hole Pattern Recognition

Pattern recognition is an evolved specialty of the human brain.  This innate ability allows us to recognize faces, spot a lion in the jungle, and see objects in the clouds.  Despite the effortlessness of employing this skill, it is not well understood nor can it be replicated by machines, even after decades of computer science research.  So take some pride in it.

A somewhat confusing array of holes, letters, numbers, and arrows on the Hagan jig by ATK.

But before we get too cocky, let’s test our abilities by taking it to the next level.  Can we recognize patterns of patterns?  In this case, we mean screw-hole patterns.  The kind needed to mount tech bindings to your skis.  Let’s see if we can spot any “meta patterns”:

Binding Toe Pattern (WxL) Heel Pattern (WxL)
Atomic Backland 40 x 38 27 x 58
BD Helio 110/145 30 x 27 25 x 34
BD Helio 180/200 30 x 27 25 x 86
Dynafit Low Tech Race 30 x 39 23 x 25
Dynafit LTR 2.0 / PDG 30 x 39 28 x 30
Dynafit Speed Superlite 30 x 39 23 x 37
Dynafit Superlite 2.0 30 x 39 34/28 x 28
Dynafit Speed / Speedfit 30 x 39 28 x 38.5
Dynafit Speed Turn 30 x 26.5 (+19) 32/36 x 52.5
Dynafit Speed Turn 2.0 30 x 39 32/36 x 52.5
Dynafit Vertical Series 30 x 26.5 (+19) 32/36 x 52.5
Dynafit Radical Series 30 x 39 32/36 x 52.5
Dynafit Radical 2.0 42.5 x 58 35.5 x 88
Dynafit Rotation 10/12 42.5 x 58 35.5 x 88
Dynafit Rotation 7 42.5 x 58 32/36 x 52.5
Dynafit Expedition 30 x 39 25 x 25
Fritschi Vipec / Tecton 43.5/39.5 x 65.5 28.5 x 60.5
G3 ION / Zed 40 x 45 36.5 x 52.5
Hagan Core 30 x 27 45 x 60
Hagan Ride 30 x 27 25 x 86
Hagan Ultra / ZR 30 x 27 25 x 34
Kreuzspitze SCTT/GT 30 x 27 20.5 x 25
Kreuzspitze EL 30 x 27 32/36 x 52.5
La Sportiva RSR 30 x 27 25 x 25
Marker Alpinist 38 x 46 36 x 40
Marker Kingpin 38 x 46 36 x 78 (+116)
Plum Race 99/135/145/150 30 x 26.5 20.5 x 26
Plum Race 165/170 / Oazo 30 x 26.5 25 x 55
Plum Pika / WEPA 30 x 26.5 32/36 x 53
Plum Guide 30 x 26.5 32/36 x 53
Plum Yak 50 x 50 55 x 58
RC1 by PG 32 x 32 28 x 33.5
Salomon MTN 40 x 38 27 x 58
Ski Trab TR Race / Titan / Vario 30 x 27 25 x 31
Ski Trab TR / Titan Adjustable 30 x 27 40 x 40
Ski Trab Vario Adjustable 30 x 27 45.5 x 37.5
Ski Trab TR-2 36 x 28 45.5 x 37.5 (+51.5)

The numbers are the distance between sets of holes in width (across the ski) and length (along the ski) in millimeters.  The 3rd number on the Vertical toes is the 5th hole behind the lock lever which is also present on older TLT Speed and Comfort series bindings from Dynafit.  It is located 19mm up the ski from the first set of holes.  The Dynafit and Plum 32/36 widths indicate the front holes are 4mm closer together than the rear. The Superlite 2.0 34/28 width indicates the front holes are 6mm further apart than the rear.  The TR-2 has a 5th heel hole 51.5mm in front of the others.

Whether or not you see race bindings when you look at clouds, we can see some patterns when drilling holes in skis. Knowing something about the history of tech bindings also helps, since it becomes clear that several manufacturers have borrowed measurements from previously patented Dynafit bindings.  As such, the drill hole patterns on toe pieces can be reduced to two competing standards, what we call “Classic Dynafit” 30 x 26.5mm and “Radical” 30 x 39mm.  Bindings with the same patterns can be mounted in holes drilled for other bindings using the same dimensions.

The astute will notice a half-millimeter discrepancy in some toe-hole lengths: 26.5 vs 27mm.  Luckily, this doesn’t prevent us from reusing drill holes as binding hole diameters have seemingly standardized at 6mm, while screw thread diameters are set at 5.5mm, leaving a half-millimeter of wiggle room.

However, fans of race bindings know that a half-millimeter can affect binding release characteristics, amount of heel rub in flat-on-ski mode, and degree of alignment between boot tech fittings and heel pins.  And since binding screws are often countersunk, the act of tightening a screw can easily move a binding by this amount.  Thus you often have to be conscious of the order in which you tighten binding screws, making sure not to tighten ones that pull in an unwanted direction first.

The same half-millimeter discrepancy is apparent in drilling jigs that manufacturers provide to their dealers.  So make sure to ask your shop if they are using the correct jig, as some might be tempted to cut corners and use a common Dynafit jig to drill holes for a less common Ski Trab or Plum binding, for example.  The result could be a little sloppy.

The Plum jig’s combination of common and uncommon drill hole patterns.

Heel hole patterns are less standardized unfortunately, but there are often solutions to compatibility issues in the form of adjustment plates.  For example, a Hagan adjustment plate can be mounted with any heel that is 25mm wide, including the La Sportiva RSR and Ski Trab TR-Race bindings.  The differing lengths of those bindings will affect the resulting boot sole length (BSL) range, but they will slide fore or aft just fine.  Dynafit race heels, in contrast, will only work with the Dynafit adjustment plates, as they are a unique tripod design.

As you can see, there is quite a bit of variability between mounting patterns for race heels.  This means the chances of being able to swap heels with another model and no adjustment plate are low.

In summary, before grabbing a drill and turning your skis into Swiss cheese, take a moment to check the screw hole pattern.  Similar to tech binding heel gaps, a few unwritten standards have evolved.  It’s possible another binding or adjustment plate will fit into existing holes or some simple planning will give you future flexibility.  That could free your brain to recognize more interesting patterns such as possible ski lines.

Comment from jpk
my kingpins are 77, not 78 (heel, length)
Reply to this comment:

Comment from Peter B
I need to take a pair of Dynafit Beast that need to come off a favorite pair of skis. Would I be able to mount a Plum Yak or Guide using the same holes? Or would I be able to mount either of these bindings without having to significantly move the mount point?

Reply from jbo
Hi Peter, the patterns for the Plum bindings are quite different than the Beasts. Do you have the 14 or 16? You could likely make the Plums work inside of the 14 holes. With the 16 you'd likely be moving forward or backward fairly significantly.
Reply to this comment:

Comment from Yannis
I just wanted to thank you to publish this table which is gold !
Reply from jbo
Thanks for the feedback Yannis!
Reply to this comment:

Comment from Chris
I read through the details here, but still not 100% sure... can I pull vertical tlt 10 from a ski and remount with radical 2.0, or will I have significant issues with drilling and hole overlap? Thanks in advance!
Reply from jbo
Hi Chris, the heels would fit in the same holes no problem. For the toes, you would need to plug three holes and drill two new ones, but the pins will be in roughly the same position if you re-use the aft holes.
Reply to this comment:

Comment from Udo Werner
I am looking for adjustment plate for my Dynafit superlite 2.0 front/toe part.
I must bridge over old drill holes.
Do you have an recommendation for me?
Reply from jbo
Hi Udo, you could use the Aski toe plates, or the B&D radical shift plates.
Reply to this comment:

Comment from Mariana
Hello, I am confused with the radical ¿1? series. I wonder if the Dynafit ST Radical with stoppers and the TLT Speed Radical without stoppers, have the same hole patterns? Thanks in advance.
Reply from jbo
Hi Mariana, yes they do.
Reply to this comment:

Comment from Mariana
Hello! Can you tell me the toe/heel pattern of the Dynafit Rotation 7? Is the toe mounting pattern the same of the dynafit TLT speed turn 2.0? Thanks
Reply from jbo
Hi Mariana, our Rotation 7s won't arrive until fall for us to verify, but I believe the toe pattern is the "Radical 2.0" while the heel pattern is the "Radical 1.0". In other words 42.5 x 58 and 32/36 x 52.5
Reply to this comment:

Comment from Mark
Do you know what the dimensions are for the hole pattern of the atk race trofeo?
Reply from jbo
Hi Mark, we don't have one in stock, but it's likely the same as the Hagan ZR.
Reply to this comment:

Comment from Enno
Hi, I'm trying to find a tech and an alpine binding with the same drill pattern, is there such a pair? Any help apreciated.
Reply from jbo
Hi Enno, unfortunately we are not aware of a crossover pattern.
Reply to this comment:

Comment from Cameron S Jenkins
Does anyone know any ski bindings that are compatible with the FT88 hole patterns
Sorry been looking for a while and haven't found anything
Reply from jbo
Hi Cameron, old school! Unfortunately we don't even have the measurements for that binding.
Reply to this comment:

Comment from Deling R
I have a pair of skis with Dynafit Radical (first generation) bindings. The heel pattern is 32/36 x 52.5

I wonder if it’s possible to upgrade to Dynafit TLT SpeedFit, with a pattern 28 x 38.5.

Reply from jbo
Hi Deling, on a ski with a tough mounting area and a very precise mount, it may be possible. However there is not enough room based on conventional recommendations to give you the go ahead on that one.
Reply from Deling R
Ok. Thanks. Perfect excuse for a new pair of skis then ;)
Reply to this comment:

Comment from PeMa
I just measured Vipec Evo in the store (with caliper, consider a 1mm error)
front piece is:
front holes are 44mm apart, rear front holes are 40mm apart
distance between holes in skiing direction is 65mm
heel peace is symmetrical:
holes are 28mm apart
distance between holes in skiing direction is 60mm
I wonder why is this not posted by manufacturer, I didn't find it online...
Reply from jbo
Hi Pema, thanks for the research! This type of info isn't usually given by the manufacturers. I've just measured a Tecton with calipers and updated the table with numbers very close to yours.
Reply to this comment:

Comment from Kaj
Will a dynafit expedition heel be compatible with the la sportiva rsr, Hagan and plum plates?
(Dynafit don't seem to make one from what I gather)?
Reply from jbo
Hi Kaj, it sure is! We've tried it on the Hagan plates specifically.
Reply to this comment:

Comment from paige
so..... do I read the chart correctly in that the TLT Radical ST 2.0 would not be compatible with the Dynafit Stoke pre drilled plates that were designed to work with the Radical 1.0?

May the Snow be with you!
Reply from jbo
Hi Paige, that is correct, the 2.0 versions have a new pattern.
Reply to this comment:

Comment from Edward
Hey Jason, I'm having trouble finding the Kreuzspitze GT pattern, is it the same as the SCTT?
Reply from jbo
Hi Edward, thanks for pointing that out. It is the same pattern, I just updated the list to reflect this.
Reply to this comment:

Comment from Corey
What are the hole pattern dimensions for the Speed Radical toe piece? are they the same as the Superlite 2.0?
Reply from jbo
Hi Corey, they are listed above as the 'Dynafit Radical Series'. Toe is the same as Superlite 2.0, yes.
Reply to this comment:

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